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Droxy Droppings
POS on the net 
25th-Oct-2012 10:32 am
death eater1

If you bought a book from barnes and nobel, check this out:

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/10/24/barnes-noble-pin-pad-credit-card/?utm_source=Naked+Security+-+Sophos+List&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=e0fce13f42-naked%252Bsecurity

LOL- some of my industry drama. 
Huawei has been ripping off designs and intellectual property as far back as 1995, they actually tried to steal one of our muxes from a trade show.  They have no shame.  As a result of this company coming in and blatently violating the no photo rule at trade shows,  booths have sheltered areas, that are monitored as to who get in.   Huawei's theivery is no secret either, and is long held common knowledge in my industry.   Which leads me to a whole issue on mfg in China, if your company does it, expect your product and designs will be ripped off in a week and counterfits made.   They dont give a damn about IP or copywrite law.  By the time that's enforced, they took the money and moved on.   I have no solution for this.

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/10/24/huawei-blunder-online-careers-page/?utm_source=Naked+Security+-+Sophos+List&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=e0fce13f42-naked%252Bsecurity

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/10/08/ban-huawei-zte-spying/

Then facebook has issues:

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/10/24/offensive-facebook-email-leads-to-blackhole-malware-attack/


Comments 
25th-Oct-2012 04:35 pm (UTC)
This is why I prefer credit cards to debit cards; at least you have some recourse. With debit cards, the money in your account is already gone. I keep ALL my receipts from credit card purchases and match them against my statement each month.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Sophos makes a great product. It's what I have on my Mac.
25th-Oct-2012 05:03 pm (UTC)
Its a great site for getting update security issues associated with computing and internetworking. =)
25th-Oct-2012 04:52 pm (UTC)
When I met with some business people in China, I was talking to them about their business, and I realized they had a business partner, left the business partner, copied their technology, and is selling the technology themselves. I asked, "Isn't that copyright violation?" And they looked me in the eye and said, "Copyright law doesn't apply to us because we're not in the United States. And even if it did, we can't stop because everyone else is doing it."

The point is, China is not enforcing copyright violations on the whole, and because business is so competitive in China, if one business doesn't violate copyright, someone else will. And because it's such a widespread practice, it normalizes it.
25th-Oct-2012 05:02 pm (UTC)
Someone once said to me if you are in business and not getting sued, then you are not in business. I think that is a really sad statement.

I understand the competitiveness of china, and how that maps to my "it takes one asshole" theory.

The fact is that envirnonment does exist. Yet, i can't think of a way to fix it, short of pulling all mfg out of china, and then not selling to that market. That buys some time, but eventually someone will get the product and reverse engineer it and there you go. The other alternative is beat them at their own game and everyone rips off everyone else. One other solution is enforced royalties, because you may not be able to stop the practice, but one can put a fee on it, that goes to the copywrite holder if the counterfit goods are exported to a country that enforces intellectual property law.

A more extremeist soution is sabtotage the factories where the counterfit goods are made, and burn all counterfit goods upon port of entry, and fine and jail retailer and wholesalers selling them. I don't think this last one is enforceable.
25th-Oct-2012 05:17 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it's kind of an impossible situation. The fact is, a lot of the business people I've met are good people. They just have questionable morals when it comes to copyright violations. They argue that sometimes their reverse engineering of a product is actually better than it originally was, that they've made improvements. They point to the fashion industry and say that it's been done all the time, even among Americans and Europeans, and yet why is everyone pointing their fingers at China?

At this point, when it comes to U.S. engineering and technology, I think (and I might be wrong, because this really isn't my industry) that our work generally leads the field, and everyone copies it after a while. It forces us to be constantly innovative, but at the same time, is that really always a bad thing?

Chinese citizens know that their own country's products are not as well made as American and European ones. With their buying power, they have been seeking out American and European made products. I don't know whether their foreign buying power has really counterbalanced all of the counterfeiting, but at least it's not completely a one way street.
25th-Oct-2012 05:28 pm (UTC)
If they take a base product, like a bike tire, and improve it, that's a design change, and they can copywrite that design change. But it's bad form if they brand it to capitalize on another company's marketing.

Fashion is a whole different mess. Bottom line, copywriting clothing design is impossible. However, labels, and textile designs, and licenced characters (e.g. Disney) that are used as part of clothing are. Also textile and clothing production and technology are subject to copywrite.

Yes, the Chinese are first to get the finger pointing and they are not the only ones. I agree as the Russians, Indians, Isrealis, Koreans, Mexico, and Tiawanese, etc etc etc are just as guilty.

It's not just clothing and technology (electronics, software, fiber optical multiplexers, routers, etc), but pharmacuticals and medical equipment! Simple things like counerfit airplane parts, these are sometimes made with substandard materials and their use sometimes results in dead people via failed equipment, and there is no way to detect such things given the sheer volume of them.

Innovation is very expensive and risky. it is also hard. The resentment is the businesses invest in that and get nothing in return other than doing free R&D for counterfiters, who have no risk or loss.
25th-Oct-2012 05:42 pm (UTC)
I agree with all of the above.

It's interesting because a lot of the Chinese people I spoke to are very proud of their country's ability to reverse engineer anything. They are actually proud of that. It's kind of an attitude of, "it took Americans 10 years to create that. It took us 6 months to mass produce indistinguishable versions of it." They come from a totally different mindset. I guess if you had to feel proud of something your countrymen are doing in huge numbers, then that would be it.
25th-Oct-2012 06:33 pm (UTC)
There was a This American Life episode where they were talking about bribery as a business practice. It got to a point where it was just becoming a business expense, and then some countries (Eurozone first, I think) started saying No -- and that caused a sea change.

So it's possible to fight the "just one asshole" problem, although it's true that there's a big difference between bribery and copyright.
25th-Oct-2012 06:55 pm (UTC)
I dont work overseas anymore, but everyone at my employer has to sign a business ethics document that has a no bribery policy.
(Deleted comment)
25th-Oct-2012 08:49 pm (UTC)
They've been that way since the 90s.

I think the market does self regulate to a degree. But it's another thing when it's blatant and celebrated theft.

Yes multi-national corp's were slaughtered by Huwei, but that is now eons ago in internet time as well. Too little to late, and to late to matter to the victims.

What will happen is the Indians will start ripping off the Chinese and vice versa in the grand zero sum game that is global trade. They wont give a crap.

However, the fact of life for humans and their engagement, is capital will flow where it is efficiently used. Human greed, no matter how much one may find it appalling, is a fact, and you cant force people not to be greedy. You can ditto that for power and influence as well.

I think people who are into fairness need go to China and look at the Dickensian lifestyle the majority live and see that is what we compete against cost wise, which is the zero sum game race to the bottom....repeat-repeat-repeat. Then they can develop solutions that the Chinese will implement-LOL (wont happen, there is no incentive for the counterfiters to change or support international IP laws-they dont care).

We had a saying when I worked for the Japanese. When they say no, they mean no, and when they say maybe, they mean no.

I suppose if I could solve these big problems I'd have a nobel prize in economics. But you and I or the world cant get the counterfiters to pay their workers more to get to that level playing field, let alone comply to IP law.

Nice to see someone telling you the truth on the first unit sale. I remeber a guy I met in India, he used to work for the most advanced textile equipment manufacturer in the world, they took the mfg of that machine to China, and in one year they were out of business and then the fall of all the US factories after that. Gotta love the Chinese. Part of me also beleives, if you take your business there, expect to lose it, and these idiot businesses got exactly that.

Yes, it's not always the Chinese to be fair, but given demographics, they have the most people doing it and reaping the most benefit from it. India comes in second.
(Deleted comment)
25th-Oct-2012 10:11 pm (UTC)
Hee- you would make a great cocktail party guest! Yes, pretty gardens. Mine is overrun with weeds, vines, and suckers. I dont want to go out and do it. But it desperately needs doing.

I used to love yard work.
25th-Oct-2012 08:56 pm (UTC)
Also- Audit the Fed.

I beleive the President doesn't matter anymore. Look a promise verus actual implementation from 2008-2009. All the grand ideas just turned into more of the same old. Seriously, dont take my word for it.

The Fed needs auditing.

(Deleted comment)
25th-Oct-2012 09:33 pm (UTC)
Yep. The book one is the most critical.
25th-Oct-2012 11:35 pm (UTC)
It's rampant among beadmakers, jewelry companies, artists, etc. People are afraid to have a bead designed and made in China, but at the same time, even if you don't do it in China, they still sometimes find it online and copy it. It's getting harder and harder to protect original work.
26th-Oct-2012 12:36 am (UTC)
And the beat goes on...
*bomp bomp bomp bomp*
And the beat goes on.

As aggravating as all this is, what goes around comes around.
I just hope my 401k is doing all right when I get ready to retire.
26th-Oct-2012 01:08 am (UTC)
I wondered why the pos machines all disappeared. Luckily I don't live in the states mentioned, but YIKES! And it took you to tell me, none of the B&N people did when I brought it up. But, having worked for Marshalls (when some hackers parked outside a store and retrieved all of the sales information from their laptops), we were told we couldn't talk to the customers about it but had to refer them to a manager so they could make sure the correct information *exactly* was given. It was to avoid misinformation and angry customers.
26th-Oct-2012 01:17 am (UTC)
I had seen a FB post about the "offensive wall posts" but kind of disregarded it as just another hoax. But I guess it's real!
For those people who use FB a lot, getting an email from FB would seem really odd. (Apparently, the more you use it, the less emails they send you.) I don't get ANY emails from them unless someone tagged me in something. And then, all those messages just get automatically filtered into a folder. I never even see them. So I'm thinking this won't affect too many FB users.
I did get a little worried about the Barnes and Noble one, until I saw what states it was in. Dodged a bullet there. Only reason I go in there is for Starbucks, so I wonder if it affected those machines as well, or just the regular registers?

Edited at 2012-10-26 01:19 am (UTC)
26th-Oct-2012 07:24 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely protect my computer.
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